I would encourage you to go to Ss. Volodimyr and Olga Ukrainian Catholic Church sometime. I have not been to a Divine Liturgy but I attended Sunday Vespers twice. There were only three clergy singing this liturgy, but their voices filled that completely traditional church. How glorious!

I am a Traditional Latin-Rite Catholic who has also been interested in and attended Byzantine, mostly Ruthenian Divine Liturgies, many times at Annunciation Byzantine in Homer Glen. I was seriously considering joining that parish, but the distance to travel to it was prohibitive. Eventually I came to the realization that in my heart and soul I am truly a Latin-Rite Catholic and part of my mission in life is to contribute in some small way to the restoration of the traditional Latin Liturgy.

I am very blessed to be the cantor and director of the Schola Cantorum at the Shrine of Christ the King, 6415 S. Woodlawn in Chicago. The Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest is there, under the direction of Msgr. R. Michael Schmitz, Vicar General for the Institute and Superior of the American Province, which includes apostolates in Wausau, Green Bay and Cashton, WI, St. Louis and KC, MO, Oakland, CA and most recently in West Orange, NJ.

God bless everyone.

Oremus pro invicem.

Even though we in the Orthodox Church, often speak of the Divine Liturgy, we consider the entire worship (Vespers, Matins, etc.) along with the many traditional fasts as our required service to the Lord. How right you are that one can learn more by attending the various services of the Byzantine and Orthodox Churches then you can by just reading books. Books can give you an over all knowledge, but only actual attendance can give you the true spiritual knowlege.

And I strongly urge everyone to visit the various ethnic Byzantine or Orthodox Churches as each Church using their native language has its own special beauty and spirituality. During my monastic training, had the pleasure and honor to attend many different ethnic churches which included the following: Ruthenian, Russian, Romanian, Greek, Japanese, Chinese, Aramaic, Arabic, Vietnames and even a couple of dialects of Eskimo tribes. I am so glad that I did.

I’ve been to St. Michael’s a few times during Lent for Presanctified Liturgy. It’s a much smaller parish than St. George, much more ethnically Romanian in identity and character, and rather more Latinized overall than St. George. I’m not sure how much chanting they do there on a Sunday.

I can say with a fairly high degree of certitude that you’d feel much more comfortable at St. George.

Thanks for all of your clarifications to all of my questions. I did indeed notice the most recent comments feature…about 30 seconds after I made my initial post. Oh, well. We all survived. =P

I think I might stop into Annunciation Byzantine this Sunday and then hope to visit St. George or possibly St. Michael the Sunday after that. Speaking of which, do you know much about the latter parish (St. Michael)? It seems to be only a few short miles away from the former.

As for another comparison, have you been to St. Nicholas (the Ukie Cathedral)? It has been my only experience with the Ukrainians. I did get a chance to look at the OUTSIDE of Volodimir and Olga, but I would like to see the interior (as well as attend a DL there) someday. Do they have a daily DL (like at St. Nicholas)? Or perhaps they follow the more Eastern custom and only celebrate the DL on Sundays?

I think that’s it (for now). Thanks once again! ^.^

Francis

You asked what else, besides restoring the liturgy, Fr. Tom Loya is doing at Annunciation Church to restore Byzantine traditions. But I think Fr. Gregori would agree with me that to restore Byzantine liturgy is to restore Byzantine tradition.

There is in the Byzantine tradition a far closer link between liturgy and the entire spirituality of the Church. If you want to learn Eastern Christian theology, you do better to attend many liturgies—especially Vespers, Matins and other liturgies besides Sunday Divine Liturgy (Jerusalem Matins, for example)—than to read a book about it. Books are great, but even then you’ll find that Eastern Christian writers will always speak of the liturgy when explaining the faith.

That said, there are other areas where Byzantine traditions have decayed, and Fr. Tom has worked on those areas as well. Two that come first to mind are restoring a more rigorous adherence to the traditional fasts (Great Lent, of course, but also the pre-Christmas “Philip’s Fast”, Apostles Fast before the Feast of Saints Peter and Paul, and the Dormition Fast); and encouraging the praying of the Jesus Prayer as the primary personal Byzantine devotion (the Jesus Prayer is so central to Eastern Christianity that it is often called simply “The Prayer”—see it here).

As for St. George in Aurora, I encourage you to come some Sunday for Divine Liturgy (at 10 a.m.). You ask if it’s reverent, but honestly I don’t know how to conceive of an irreverent Divine Liturgy; the vestments, the icons, the incense, the chant all weigh against the very possibility of anything but reverence, which is part of its genius.

You won’t find the sign of peace at D.L. at St. George, but you will find kneelers, and the congregation does kneel at those points you’d expect it in a Latin Rite church. This is something that I hope will change in due course; I don’t kneel on Sunday, but quite often I’m up front cantoring where I wouldn’t kneel anyway.

The Romanian chant is quite beautiful; it’s richer and more complex—and often more challenging—than the Ruthenian chant you would have heard at Annunciation.

But one of the great things about St. George is that we have a fabulous coffee hour after Liturgy, which is actually much more like a brunch. You’ll have the chance to meet folks and ask any questions you have about the liturgy or Byzantine traditions. Hope to see you there sometime!

A final comment on liturgical language. The liturgies at both St. George and Annunciation are in English, with occasional use of the “old country” language. In the case of the Ruthenians at Annunciation, this would be Slavonic; at St. George, Romanian (they used Slavonic long ago, but consider it a foreign imposition). I think it’s important to honor the historical roots of a parish by keeping the old language alive, but even more important to allow the people to worship the Lord in the language they know.

All the same, I would love to hear an entire liturgy in Greek, Slavonic, Aramaic or Romanian. In Chicago, if you want to hear something close to Slavonic, you could go to one of the Ukrainian churches, which usually have liturgy in Ukrainian (esp. Volodimir and Olga, which is always in Ukr.).

Although I am not familiar with the protocol in the American Orthodox Church, it has always been my understanding that Catholics are not permitted to receive communion at an Orthodox church and vice versa. Despite some of the overabundance of “ecumenism” in the Novus Ordo, I have been otherwise taught (by traditionalists of many varieties) the above.

I do know of some heterodox Greek kids who receive at any church they happen to be in, but that’s more an issue of a lack of understanding and/or a rejection of the age-old teachings on transubstantiation. Quite unfortunate.

Perhaps you could provide me some information on your situation there?

Thanks,

Francis

PS. I’d be willing to hear what everyone else has to say on anything I’ve posted here (and am particularly awaiting Eric’s thoughts). Also, Eric, if this is getting way out of topic, I’d be more than happy to go elsewhere. Thanks for everyone’s patience. ~.^

I am surprised that you cannot receive the Eucharist from the Orthodox Church. I often give communion to Roman Catholics and here where I live (Western New York) many Orthodox will occasionally attend Mass at a Roman Catholic Church and receive the Eucharist.

God Bless’
“Abouna” Gregori

I have also questioned the pros versus the cons of all the discoveries, the moving-forward stuff… there always seems to be a “bad” that comes with the “good.”

With the invention of instant communication, we gave up the benefit of face-to-face meetings. With the invention of the cell phone, we give up the right to get away and spend time alone. How many times have you seen a man out to dinner with his wife when “work” calls him? My own father won’t even go on vacation without his cell phone, and he often wakes at midnight because “work” calls and he has to get up and go back to work to fix the problem. With cars came an increase in air pollution. With video games came a reduction in kids going outside and playing with friends. With the radio and television came trash. With modern medicine also came birth control, abortion, cosmetic surgery, and now we have “desisn your baby” on the horizon with genetic alterating.

Just some stuff to think about…

CC