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	<title>Comments on: Catholic v. Orthodox</title>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-60839</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-60839</guid>
		<description>As a Roman Catholic, I have long admired Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches for the respect and reverence that we seem to have lost in most of our parishes.  However, I find that Eastern Churches tend to be more "ethnic", language and custom-wise.  I am not Slavic or Greek or Russian or Coptic.  Much of the symbolism is lost on me.  The best I can hope for at this point is the revival of the Old Latin Mass in my area.  Issues like filioque give me a headache.  I leave those questions to greater minds than mine.  I would love to see Eastern-Western unity, and as far as I am concerned it doesn't have to be institutionally so. East and West always had different calendars and customs.  I would just like to see us united in an increasingly anti-Church world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Roman Catholic, I have long admired Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches for the respect and reverence that we seem to have lost in most of our parishes.  However, I find that Eastern Churches tend to be more &#8220;ethnic&#8221;, language and custom-wise.  I am not Slavic or Greek or Russian or Coptic.  Much of the symbolism is lost on me.  The best I can hope for at this point is the revival of the Old Latin Mass in my area.  Issues like filioque give me a headache.  I leave those questions to greater minds than mine.  I would love to see Eastern-Western unity, and as far as I am concerned it doesn&#8217;t have to be institutionally so. East and West always had different calendars and customs.  I would just like to see us united in an increasingly anti-Church world.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-58025</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-58025</guid>
		<description>On 25th May 2008 Nicolae Corneanu, the Orthodox Metropolite of Banat - Romania, asked and received the Communion during a greek-catholic Liturgy that he attended in Timisoara, causing joy to the audience that was praying 14 hours continuously before the Liturgy for the unity of Church and a lot of protests in the orthodox world that is still considering the Catholic Church as being heretic.

For more details click here:
http://www.rogrcath.org/a1-Romanian-Orthodox-Metropolite-Nicolae-Corneanu-received-Communion-during-a-greek-catholic-Liturgy.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On 25th May 2008 Nicolae Corneanu, the Orthodox Metropolite of Banat - Romania, asked and received the Communion during a greek-catholic Liturgy that he attended in Timisoara, causing joy to the audience that was praying 14 hours continuously before the Liturgy for the unity of Church and a lot of protests in the orthodox world that is still considering the Catholic Church as being heretic.</p>
<p>For more details click here:<br />
<a href="http://www.rogrcath.org/a1-Romanian-Orthodox-Metropolite-Nicolae-Corneanu-received-Communion-during-a-greek-catholic-Liturgy.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.rogrcath.org/a1-Romanian-Orthodox-Metropolite-Nicolae-Corneanu-received-Communion-during-a-greek-catholic-Liturgy.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-54381</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-54381</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Victor asks: "Why is it that Catholics are always the ones trying to unify with the Orthodox Church, and not vice-versa?"&lt;/strong&gt;

Why are the Catholics the ones seeking unity? Because the Catholics are the ones who carry the principle of unity, manifest in the Chair of Peter.

How would the Orthodox go about seeking unity? Who "speaks for" the Orthodox? Who would initiate the negotiations?

As for Orthodox history being "pure," one need only look back a couple decades, to the collusion of Orthodox heirarchs with the regimes of the communist bloc, to see it ain't so.

Nobody's history is pure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Victor asks: &#8220;Why is it that Catholics are always the ones trying to unify with the Orthodox Church, and not vice-versa?&#8221;</strong></p>
<p>Why are the Catholics the ones seeking unity? Because the Catholics are the ones who carry the principle of unity, manifest in the Chair of Peter.</p>
<p>How would the Orthodox go about seeking unity? Who &#8220;speaks for&#8221; the Orthodox? Who would initiate the negotiations?</p>
<p>As for Orthodox history being &#8220;pure,&#8221; one need only look back a couple decades, to the collusion of Orthodox heirarchs with the regimes of the communist bloc, to see it ain&#8217;t so.</p>
<p>Nobody&#8217;s history is pure.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-54377</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-54377</guid>
		<description>{choking on my coffee}  'divorce is permitted'??  Well there's one reason why the Orthodox church needs the authority of Rome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>{choking on my coffee}  &#8216;divorce is permitted&#8217;??  Well there&#8217;s one reason why the Orthodox church needs the authority of Rome.</p>
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		<title>By: Victor</title>
		<link>http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-54353</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-54353</guid>
		<description>Why is it that Catholics are always the ones trying to unify with the Orthodox Church, and not vice-versa? Why is it that Orthodox believers just want to be left alone? Because for Orthodox believers the Church is a national institution, and Catholics continually miss the point here: we don't need or want a schsmatic Roman bishop exercising authority over our lands. And ironically, the Orthodox church is both more historically consistent and more reasonable: priests are allowed to marry, divorce is permitted, and the notion of inherited sin is frowned upon. Lastly... the Orthodox church never helped in the enslavement of entire continents or the genocide of the Americas. Our history is pure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it that Catholics are always the ones trying to unify with the Orthodox Church, and not vice-versa? Why is it that Orthodox believers just want to be left alone? Because for Orthodox believers the Church is a national institution, and Catholics continually miss the point here: we don&#8217;t need or want a schsmatic Roman bishop exercising authority over our lands. And ironically, the Orthodox church is both more historically consistent and more reasonable: priests are allowed to marry, divorce is permitted, and the notion of inherited sin is frowned upon. Lastly&#8230; the Orthodox church never helped in the enslavement of entire continents or the genocide of the Americas. Our history is pure.</p>
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		<title>By: jogomu</title>
		<link>http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-40687</link>
		<dc:creator>jogomu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-40687</guid>
		<description>Hi Karen:

The Fall of human nature was not brought about in the original solitude of Adam.  It was brought about by the communion of Adam and Eve who together represented human nature, male and female.  1 Tim 2:14

Human nature, male and female, fell.  Human nature, male and female, accomplished our redemption.  When you say that men and women share human nature, I think you are denying my premise that human nature itself cannot be represented without both sexes, which I take to be appropriate for a hypothetical world where the Fall happened via Adam in solitude.  But that isn't our world!

"As Eve by the speech of an Angel was seduced, so as to flee God, transgressing His word, so also Mary received the good tidings by means of the Angel's speech, so as to bear God within her, being obedient to His word. And, though the one had disobeyed God, yet the other was drawn to obey God; that of the virgin Eve the Virgin Mary might become the advocate. And, as by a virgin the human race had been bound to death, by a virgin it is saved, the balance being preserved, a virgin's disobedience by a virgin's obedience." (St Irenaeus)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Karen:</p>
<p>The Fall of human nature was not brought about in the original solitude of Adam.  It was brought about by the communion of Adam and Eve who together represented human nature, male and female.  1 Tim 2:14</p>
<p>Human nature, male and female, fell.  Human nature, male and female, accomplished our redemption.  When you say that men and women share human nature, I think you are denying my premise that human nature itself cannot be represented without both sexes, which I take to be appropriate for a hypothetical world where the Fall happened via Adam in solitude.  But that isn&#8217;t our world!</p>
<p>&#8220;As Eve by the speech of an Angel was seduced, so as to flee God, transgressing His word, so also Mary received the good tidings by means of the Angel&#8217;s speech, so as to bear God within her, being obedient to His word. And, though the one had disobeyed God, yet the other was drawn to obey God; that of the virgin Eve the Virgin Mary might become the advocate. And, as by a virgin the human race had been bound to death, by a virgin it is saved, the balance being preserved, a virgin&#8217;s disobedience by a virgin&#8217;s obedience.&#8221; (St Irenaeus)</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-39944</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 02:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-39944</guid>
		<description>Hi Jogomu :-)

When you put it like "He who has seen Mary has seen the Church", that's a bit different... I just didn't like the sound of "Mary is the Church." 

I also like what you say about every Christian being a co-redeemer in an imperfect way. As an Easterner, I just don't like overdogmatizing nonessential elements of the Faith or putting every mystery under a Scholastic microscope.

And, no, regarding "that which is not assumed is not healed" doesn't mean women are not healed-- He assumed our human nature, and men and women share that. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jogomu <img src='http://squarezero.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>When you put it like &#8220;He who has seen Mary has seen the Church&#8221;, that&#8217;s a bit different&#8230; I just didn&#8217;t like the sound of &#8220;Mary is the Church.&#8221; </p>
<p>I also like what you say about every Christian being a co-redeemer in an imperfect way. As an Easterner, I just don&#8217;t like overdogmatizing nonessential elements of the Faith or putting every mystery under a Scholastic microscope.</p>
<p>And, no, regarding &#8220;that which is not assumed is not healed&#8221; doesn&#8217;t mean women are not healed&#8211; He assumed our human nature, and men and women share that. <img src='http://squarezero.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: jogomu</title>
		<link>http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-39563</link>
		<dc:creator>jogomu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-39563</guid>
		<description>Hi Karen:

"He who has seen Mary has seen the Church."

This isn't to say that the Church is a unipersonal mystery just as "He who has seen me has seen the Father" isn't to say that God is a unipersonal mystery.  Nevertheless Mary is sufficient to reveal the whole mystery of the Church in history.

This revelation of the Church in history submitted to a husband who was less holy than she was.  This is precisely what my Orthodox friends do not wish to do.  Therefore I call them non-Marian... disassociated from the "destroyer of heresies."

Every Christian is a co-redeemer in an imperfect way.  In Mary we just see this role without imperfection.  Anyone interested in this topic of co-redemption must read Salvifici Doloris.

"That which is not assumed is not healed."  Does this mean that woman is not healed since Jesus didn't assume a woman's body?  Was Jesus the perfect woman?  We need to become re-anchored in the "New Eve" language of the Fathers.  It is a more important and more ancient designation than Theotokos.  Read Newman's letter to Dr Pusey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Karen:</p>
<p>&#8220;He who has seen Mary has seen the Church.&#8221;</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t to say that the Church is a unipersonal mystery just as &#8220;He who has seen me has seen the Father&#8221; isn&#8217;t to say that God is a unipersonal mystery.  Nevertheless Mary is sufficient to reveal the whole mystery of the Church in history.</p>
<p>This revelation of the Church in history submitted to a husband who was less holy than she was.  This is precisely what my Orthodox friends do not wish to do.  Therefore I call them non-Marian&#8230; disassociated from the &#8220;destroyer of heresies.&#8221;</p>
<p>Every Christian is a co-redeemer in an imperfect way.  In Mary we just see this role without imperfection.  Anyone interested in this topic of co-redemption must read Salvifici Doloris.</p>
<p>&#8220;That which is not assumed is not healed.&#8221;  Does this mean that woman is not healed since Jesus didn&#8217;t assume a woman&#8217;s body?  Was Jesus the perfect woman?  We need to become re-anchored in the &#8220;New Eve&#8221; language of the Fathers.  It is a more important and more ancient designation than Theotokos.  Read Newman&#8217;s letter to Dr Pusey.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-39456</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-39456</guid>
		<description>Jogomu, 

"The Church is Mary"? She's the MOTHER of the Church, but she is not the Church.

Herb, Orthodoxy teaches that Jesus assumed the same human nature we have; He was subject to temptation, to suffering, to death, etc. He had to... "That which is not assumed is not healed." He simply didn't sin.

What "Co-Redemptrix" means is that the Mother of God contributed to our redemption through her suffering at the cross, which is, to be blunt, a strange and un-apostolic idea. She gave birth to the Word, so yes, in that sense she participated in our redemption. But Jesus is our Redeemer-- He, and not the Theotokos, died and rose to free us from Satan's bondage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jogomu, </p>
<p>&#8220;The Church is Mary&#8221;? She&#8217;s the MOTHER of the Church, but she is not the Church.</p>
<p>Herb, Orthodoxy teaches that Jesus assumed the same human nature we have; He was subject to temptation, to suffering, to death, etc. He had to&#8230; &#8220;That which is not assumed is not healed.&#8221; He simply didn&#8217;t sin.</p>
<p>What &#8220;Co-Redemptrix&#8221; means is that the Mother of God contributed to our redemption through her suffering at the cross, which is, to be blunt, a strange and un-apostolic idea. She gave birth to the Word, so yes, in that sense she participated in our redemption. But Jesus is our Redeemer&#8211; He, and not the Theotokos, died and rose to free us from Satan&#8217;s bondage.</p>
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		<title>By: jogomu</title>
		<link>http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-39363</link>
		<dc:creator>jogomu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 06:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://squarezero.org/2006-0915/catholic-v-orthodox/#comment-39363</guid>
		<description>Folks...

The Church is Mary.  Mary is the Church.  That is Step 1.

Step 2 is picking the communion that works like the Holy Family.  Namely, where All-Holiness is in a chaste marriage with Less-Holiness and obeys him while rearing God who is conceived of the Holy Spirit in/of All-Holiness but Who obeys them both.

I think this is solidly and easily Catholic.  If you like the Eastern stuff then go Byzantine.  Diversity isn't evil.  Start painting icons of St Joseph though b/c they are sorely needed!

For fruit-tasters, gotta look at the canon of Saints.  In a field with tares the average sample isn't going to tell you anything.

Christ's Peace to all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Folks&#8230;</p>
<p>The Church is Mary.  Mary is the Church.  That is Step 1.</p>
<p>Step 2 is picking the communion that works like the Holy Family.  Namely, where All-Holiness is in a chaste marriage with Less-Holiness and obeys him while rearing God who is conceived of the Holy Spirit in/of All-Holiness but Who obeys them both.</p>
<p>I think this is solidly and easily Catholic.  If you like the Eastern stuff then go Byzantine.  Diversity isn&#8217;t evil.  Start painting icons of St Joseph though b/c they are sorely needed!</p>
<p>For fruit-tasters, gotta look at the canon of Saints.  In a field with tares the average sample isn&#8217;t going to tell you anything.</p>
<p>Christ&#8217;s Peace to all.</p>
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